Regarding Air Wolf...
feel free to contact us ms@robinsonhelicopters.org

 

13snoopy
Member Since : 2007
Posts(339)
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Regarding Air Wolf...

02-06-2008 09:54:12

To the Mods:
I think Air Wolf or whatever they call themselves should either buy ad space here or leave the building, so to speak.
The spokesman for the company, who has repeatedly posted here regarding his blade tape, is taking up valuable webspace with his company schtick.
Incredibly, in one of his most recent posts in the R44 forum under the "RHC Blade Update" thread,  he intimates that his company is "very upset with comments posted on this site and are considering their legal options"...against this very site!
I respectfully request that all Air Wolf's posts be deleted from Robinsonhelicopters.org.
The more this company rep posts, the worse it gets and I am not interested in reading absurd threats from some second-rate company that are being made towards a site that we are all contributing to so that it will keep functioning.
PR to this guy must stand for Public Riot.

Replies

Grant
Member Since : 2007
Posts(687)
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02-06-2008 03:40:46
Censorship is not what I want to do. We can let people say what they want and the consumer can decide for himself. I think there was some overreaction to the subject which is why I have not participated in the debate until now. The forum does a pretty good job of policing itself. The comments and opinions are just that, opinions. Nothing to be sued over and nothing to loose sleep over.
I think we have exposed some of the issues that have had people concerned and addressed them, although it may have taken a while I think we can agree that the information is now out there.

I edited my post because I think what I said came off the wrong way.
Net Gunner
Member Since : 2007
Posts(7)
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02-06-2008 04:09:02
I realize the desire for everyone to get their jabs in, but come on guys, it's starting to make us look like the idiots, not Airwolf.  I don't know Mr. Quest, have never talked to him, but our company did order an R44 kit from him and he was completely professional (he didn't chew out our secretary).  I know of some guys who have been taping their blades for a while now, so this just gives them a legal means of achieving the same outcome.  The guys we deal with do not have the luxury of flying from airport to airport as do many of you.  It gets very expensive if you have to paint your blades every 200 hrs., not to mention the down time.  If you want to pile on anyone, pile on Robinson for making a sorry set of blades.
tbagliore
Member Since : 2015
Posts(13)
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02-06-2008 04:55:14
Well said Phillip!
Grant
Member Since : 2007
Posts(687)
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02-06-2008 05:10:58
If you want to pile on anyone, pile on Robinson for making a sorry set of blades.

Darn, Phillip
Just when I got the airwolf wad out of my panties, you had to go and wad them up again with this!...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Net Gunner
Member Since : 2007
Posts(7)
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02-06-2008 07:20:05
Peace and Love...Peace and Love!
nskaye
Member Since : 2007
Posts(89)
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02-07-2008 04:02:27
Airwolf or what I am told is really Airwolf Aerospace since they insist that there is no reason for any of us to assume the companies are related (despite an almost identical logo, using the same mascot, same address and phone number, and connected websites) was exceedingly polite and kind when we ordered the blade tape.  The problem was when we wanted to return it, as it wasn't necessary.  Then, their demeanor changed significantly.  And yes, they really were rude to Judy and to me.  Airwolf does have a no fee return policy on their site.  Airwolf Aerospace has noting about a return on their website, so they are claiming that they can charge a 20% restocking fee.  Obviously, as an individual, I don't have the resources to pursue litigation against a major military/industrial company.  I hope they don't sue me, and I have always tried to settle all my disputes through conversation.  Since they won't talk to me, I am left holding the bag.  They have the tape back and my money.  My only recourse is through consumer protection avenues, as I simply can't afford to sue them nor have I ever threatened to do so.  They have posted that they are considering legal options against me.  I am sorry to read that, but since they have my money and their tape, I can't give them anything else.  I was raised in a family, religion, and culture, where ethics mattered, and all a person had was their reputation.  The business world may be very different, in that personal and business ethics differ, and where anything that profits a company is considered good and greed is rewarded.  I couldn't sleep at night knowing I behaved that way.  I have been Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic Pilot of the year and Pilot of the Year for Angel Flight from Delaware because I donate my time and helicopter to help others.  I see 20% of my patients for free and volunteer at a clinic as well.  I collect pharmaceutical samples and unused medications for clinics in Haiti, Nigeria and rural Virginia.  I'm not looking to be rewarded for this, it's just who I am.  Compliment my parents for raising me this way (if you think it's noble.)  If I do ever get my money back from Airwolf Aerospace, I am making a pledge to donate it to a charity.  Perhaps that promise will make them reconsider doing the right thing for this one time.  And, I hope they put up something on their website that indicates that they will charge such an enormous restocking fee for such a small, light item (it cost 10.00 or less to ship it, yet they want 500.00 to put it back on the shelf and to do the complex task of restocking it in inventory on their computer).  In short, caveat emptor.  Thanks.

Neil


traviscfi
Member Since : 2014
Posts(157)
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02-07-2008 05:08:21
Neil,

Not all of us business owners/mangers are corrupted by greed although you do see several smaller aviation companies that do not have the best business practices. I think it is probably because aviation is such a passion driven industry that many times good pilots/mechanics/engineers decide to start a company and truly don't know the first thing about running a business. They get overextended and frustrated because of a poor business planning and practices and that sometimes shows in their behaviour. I've personally had to stop myself from these rash behaviors when the pressure gets high so I understand some of this. I am not trying to defend the actions of Airwolf because I agree the return policy is very misleading, it is normal to see a restock fee on aviation parts because they have to go through another conformity inspection when returned but they should explain that on the website. It is actually very abnormal to have a return policy like they do on the Airwolf.com website. I am sure this will get changed following this misunderstanding.

Phillip,

Well I am not sure Robinson should take all the blame for this blade issue. The FAA is really being cautious, there have been 11 blades delaminate on the Robinson fleet. There are over 8000 Robinsons built so if only 1/2 are still flying that means 8000 total blades. Out of these 8000 blades 11 have delaminated, this is .14% chance of failure. All the blades that failed where very eroded from continuous low flight in dusty areas so that further decreases your risk of blade delamination. So how does this compare to the failure rate of the tires on you car?? Think about that the next time you are driving 60+ down the freeway.

nskaye
Member Since : 2007
Posts(89)
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02-08-2008 03:40:28
I have now called 20 aviation parts companies.  The highest restocking fee I have been quoted is 5% (and that seems about average in the industry based on my small survey).  I am a doctor and have to deal with the FDA, the most rigorous governmental agency out there.  Yes, the FAA is a cakewalk in comparison.  So, I have some idea about being a small businessman (I am just a solo practitioner, and believe me, running your own office is no simple business) and I am aware of how horrendous paperwork can be, taking away from my time and it is all uncompensated.  I have to log in every phone with every patient, and if you happen to call after hours and need a prescription that's 3 times the work, all uncompensated.  But hey, I knew that service to patients (my customers) was part of the deal when I went into medicine.  I don't feel sorry for Airwolf Aerospace, nor do I consider them a little business being picked on.  I still am darn sure that charging $500 to restock a box of tape is still an extremely high profit endeavor.  I have run my share of small businesses and I understand and believe that it is possible to do a better job and to have a higher ethical code of conduct, and to show more consideration and respect for customers.  That, I believe brings repeat business and referrals.  But then again, I obviously run my my business differently than others, and I'll never be as rich as a big company.  The Ohio Consumer Protection division of the Attorney General's office is looking into this for me and if I am found out of line I'll let you all know.  Who knows, they might (I pray) help protect me as a consumer, or they might decide I'm wrong and that Airwolf can charge 100% restocking fee, or even 200% if they want.  If I owe Airwolf Aerospace an apology, I'll be the first to admit it and will post it here.  But, had I known there would be such a high penalty for restocking, I wouldn't have ordered this product, and I am certain there was no disclosure of the restocking charge.  I truly did believe that the Airwolf and Airwolf Aerospace were/are the same and used the same policies, based on it being the same people, mascot, almost identical logo, address, and phone number.  Their websites are connected and there is no disclaimer on Aerospace's site to warn customers that they have left the Airwolf domain and are now subject to different, unpublished rules.  When we called and placed the order, which they readily and happily  took (now I know why, they hoped we'd keep the tape for 2500.00 but obviously knew if we we didn't, they'd get it back to resell and a 500.00 bonus), we were never told about their return policy.  Perhaps we were stupid to not have asked, but since we thought these were the same companies, we entered the deal with confidence and trust.  So, we shall see.  I still have fading hope that they will recognize an honest and legitimate misunderstanding and treat me fairly.  But then again, physicians tend to be optimistic.....

Neil
zeroechoecho
Member Since : 2007
Posts(162)
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02-08-2008 05:14:57
Just one more reason you should have been a lawyer instead of a doctor.  You could have sued their pants off :)

As one small business guy to another I think you have to take your loss and go on.  They can charge whatever they wish as a restocking fee.  The post you made her has cost them more than anything else you could have done.  A good businessman survives and prospers; a bad businessman does not.  Had the company in question handled this in a more appropriate manner they would have been a far larger company long ago.


traviscfi
Member Since : 2014
Posts(157)
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02-08-2008 06:10:34
Neil,

First I wanted to thank you for being a doctor and not a lawyer. Maybe if we had more doctors and less lawyers, or no lawyers for that matter, all of our lives would be simpler and more healthy. I hope you didn't take my comments wrong because in no way was I trying to defend Airwolf. I actually received a call today from one of our Raven II customers asking about the blade tape and just couldn't in good conscience recommend this product. First off he only has 600 hours left on the blades and I feel the cost is much too high to justify with this little amount of time remaining. Second I am not sure that having to deal with this company is something worth the hassle. In todays competitive market I think customer service policies that treat people fair are what sets companies apart. I wish you the best with this problem and think it is very noble to as committed this money to charity if ever returned.

Ducati
Member Since : 2015
Posts(191)
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02-10-2008 05:49:27
Oh, don't get me started on doctors and health.  LOL  I am always told I don't get enough protein and they don't even do any tests.  Oi!

I think is this company had an ounce of customer service in it, it would issue a full refund, give him the blade tape for all the trouble he has had to endure, and issue a full and public apology. 
Airwolf
Member Since : 2015
Posts(12)
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02-11-2008 03:18:22
To all that have read and commented on these posts regarding Airwolf Aerospace LLC.

We learned on Thursday 02/07/08 that Neil Kaye, the person who started all the negative attacks at Airwolf, has never spent one dime with Airwolf Aerospace LLC, Airwolf Filter Corp, or any other Airwolf company.  You are all victims of a giant hoax.  We were  under the impression that Mr. Kaye worked for a maintenance facility called Horizon Helicopters.  We learned on Thursday that in fact Mr. Kaye was in fact a customer of Horizon Helicopters and that Mr Kaye ordered our tape kit from Horizon Helicopters. Mr Kaye decided for some reason to call us direct to return a blade tape kit that he never ordered from us. This is what confused us in the first place. Had I known this before, our defense would have been cut and dry.  Mr Kaye has no business dealings with Airwolf whatsoever.  He should be talking to Horizon Helicopters the company that ordered our blade tape for his helicopter. We did nothing wrong. We did not sell Mr. Kaye anything and therefore he is entitled to no refund whatsoever from us.

We said we would not debate this on a public forum, but we seem to be dragged into defending ourselves while all this misinformation and lies are posted. And it is extremely difficult for us to mount any kind of defense when all of you seem so quick to rush to judgement, which is based on bad information provided to you all by one of your own.

So all of you who have had a say in any negative comment posted against Airwolf, need to ask yourself, now that you know the facts, what can you do to retract your comments as you did not know the real story? Don't believe us? Ask Mr. Kaye to produce an invoice showing he purchased the tape from Airwolf.  I can guarantee you without a shadow of doubt, he can't. Not possible. He never spent a dime with us. Whomever moderates this site is welcome to contact me directly and upon permission from Horizon Helicopters, I will provide a copy of the invoice to them for our blade tape kit.  I implore all of you who have been so vocal and negative toward Airwolf, to redirect that anger toward one of your own members, Mr. Kaye, the one who lead you all to believe that Airwolf had wronged him, when in fact he has spent no money with Airwolf.

We are entitled to and expect a public apology from all of you who were so eager to crucify us on this forum.  And as far as deleting all of the Airwolf Posts which someone suggested, I would think a much fairer one would be to remove everything else. 

This will be our final post on this site. We have no time and see no point in doing so. It would be nice to read a lot of apologies from all of you who were so quick to judge us. It also would be nice of one of your moderators or whomever oversees this site to say  " I should have checked into this initial post and got Airwolf's side of the story before I allowed the post" "I screwed up and did my members an injustice"  Based on what I have seen so far, I am not going to hold my breath, but who knows, maybe you all will surprise me.


Jonny Quest
Airwolf Aerospace LLC.
nskaye
Member Since : 2007
Posts(89)
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02-11-2008 04:37:22
For all on this forum, I too will make this my last post, as we should
move on.  I feel compelled to reply to the claim that I have
perpetrated a hoax. I keep my helicopter at Horizon, which is owned by
Harry Griffith. His wife is Judy, and she is the one who was berated
when she called about returning the tape.  Judy, and their daughter
Julie work as Horizon's "front office."  As an FBO, Horizon handles
maintenance for me and is kind enough to order what I or any other
owner needs, adds on a small %age, and then bills me as a customer
once/month. I asked for the blade tape based on the AD and Judy put it
on their personal Southwest Visa card in January. When the AMOC came
out, and we hadn't used the tape and we believed it was no longer
necessary, it was returned.  Harry and Judy were going to be hit with
the restocking fee, which would be then passed along to me.  So before
Judy said "yes" to Johnny at Airwolf Aerspace, LLC (as we now all know
it is unrelated to Airwolf, and simply a fluke that they resemble each
other on the web), she asked me for permission and/or assistance, since
I was the one paying this bill and she was uncomfortable having another
confrontation with them.  I said "no" and asked them to work with me
to get the 100% refund I feel I deserve. I asked them to call Chase
Bank (their Southwest Rapid Rewards Visa card company) as well to try
to stop payment.

I then wrote a check for $2500 (Check #2195 on 2/7/08 from WSFS Bank
Account # 207495854, HeliventureUSA (my helicopter corp where I am the
sole owner)) to cover things, as it is unfair to a small helicopter FBO
(owned/operated by a husband and wife) to be out the money. That's what
being ethical is about. I put my money where my mouth is. Feel free to
call Horizon at 302-368-5135 and check to see if I am telling the
truth. I am weary of fighting a multimillion dollar aerospace vendor
like Airwolf Aerospace. But, I will defend my reputation as an
individual and hope you allow that on this site. I have not slandered
or libeled them. I have stuck to the facts.  I would love to see this
resolved professionally, and if they have to charge a restocking fee,
even though Airwolf doesn't (for returning similar parts...), the
industry average is 5%, not 20%.

I am trying to find out if there is any market for the tape, as it
might be better to get it back at 2500 and donate it to a charitable
auction for Angel Flight than to lose 500.  I thank all of you for your
support.

Neil
Grant
Member Since : 2007
Posts(687)
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02-11-2008 04:39:49
Okay - Here is the deal....I have tried to stay open minded and independent and quiet on this debate....But I'm tired of it and it has gone on long enough so this topic has been moved to the Rant & Rave Section........


People can read both sides and decide for themselves. I've had enough.

The tape works. Having spent enough time in the military as rotor and fixed wing aircrew member and a long time as a mechanic and pilot, I can tell you that it does what they claim. If there were measurable performance issues the tape would not have been approved. That is not the issue here. - End of Story -

On another note, Dr. Kaye certainly has a right, in my opinion, to voice his experience with a company that provides a product and service to our community. He has done so and we have had an opportunity to hear the whole story.

To Airwolf,  You will not be getting an apology because I have locked this topic for further comment.


I'm not trying to crucify anyone here.....I'm just tired of reading it


To everyone else......... relax, take a deep breath, and be done with it already.....


And yes, I added Dr. Kaye's comments after I said it was locked.....